40&8 Open Discussion

Many post 9/11 veterans and servicemembers will soon see a new package of education benefits. This new Post 9/11 GI Bill, or so-called GI Bill for the 21st Century, boasts the most comprehensive education benefits package since the original GI Bill was signed into law in 1944.

The new bill goes well beyond helping to pay for tuition; many veterans who served after Sept. 11, 2001, will get full tuition and fees, a new monthly housing stipend, and a $1,000 a year stipend for books and supplies. The new bill also gives Reserve and Guard members who have been activated for more than 90 days since 9/11 access to the same GI Bill benefits.

Read the complete article at education.military.com

The following letter was received from Dave Rabius. With his permission, I am passing this on and hopefully it will appear in May issue of the BULLETIN. Please pass it on to all voyageurs on your email.

Tony Gallagher,
National Directeur, Public Relations

April 08, 2008

American Legion

Attn: Bob Spanogle

National Adjutant

700 North Pennsylvania St

Indianapolis, IN 46206

Dear Bob:

With your patience and help, we hope to end a 48 year old misconception within our ranks that hamstrings us and has been an ongoing thorn in the Legion’s side.

The e-mail sent to Dean Thompson, from Jack Querfield, Internal Affairs, blames the Forty et Eight for actions taken between our two organizations 48 years ago. Those who made that momentous decision are now dead. And we are now decidedly two separate organizations. However, we of the Forty et Eight are today still dealing with this matter internally. We regret that this is a thorn in the Legion’s side. However, as long as we continue to only admit members who are Legionnaires, this problem will continue to intrude upon and irritate the Legion. If we can open our ranks beyond Legion-only, our members will realize they aren’t your honor society.

We understand your frustration. Only 1% of Legionaries are Voyageurs. The Legion doesn’t particularly care about us. But 100% of Voyageurs are Legion members. Many of us love the Legion. Then too, some of us may feel that by being an officer of an honor society of the Legion, they are somehow better than you who are officers of the Legion. This of course is wrong. But, as long as the Legion continues to blame the Forty et Eight for the 1960 split, that sends a strong signal to our members that if only we change our minds about being independent, then the American Legion will let us be it honor society. You and I know that isn’t going to happen, assigning blame helps keep this problem alive.

We want to open our doors to all honorable veterans. We want to quit being a direct competitor for limited Legion manpower and dollars. We want to bring non-Legion members into our ranks, where they will, coincidentally, be surrounded by Voyageurs who are mostly Legion members.we may suppose to the Legion’s recruitment benefit. And once we do open our membership criteria beyond the Legion, all talk of us being a “Legion honor society” will stop.

It boils down to the Legion answering two questions without assigning blame.

1. Does the American Legion today want the Forty et Eight to be its Honor Society? Yes or No?

2. If the Forty et Eight is willing to legally un-incorporate from its independent status, will the American Legion legally adopt the Forty et Eight as the official Honor Society of The American Legion? Yes or No?

If you say this is impossible and assign no blame, our members will get the point, our resolution will pass this fall, and this thorn in your side and ours will be gone.

Thank you for helping us clarify this matter to the benefit of both our organizations.

Sincerely,

David R Rabius

Correspondant National

The Response!
I received a call from Bob on Friday May 2, 2008 in which he answered the questions I had asked.

Does The American Legion today want the Forty et Eight to be its Honor Society? Bob’s answer is NO.

If the Forty et Eight is willing to legally un-incorporate from its independent status, will the American Legion legally adopt the Forty et Eight as the official Honor Society of the American legion? Bob’s answer is NO.

I think that puts this issue to rest and we can now move on. I do plan to post this on the web site next week.

Dave

T0 : 40&8 Members of North Carolina
FROM : Michael A. Reott, Sr, DDS, PA, LTC(ret)
2004-2005 NC PDC
40&8 Grande Publicist
Date : 02 April 2008

Legionnaires,

On March 28th and 29th The American Legion Department of North Carolina
hosted an informational booth at The North Carolina National Guard
Association’s Convention in Wilmington NC. One of the hot topics of the
weekend was Senate Bill S.22, “Post 9/11 Veterans Educational Assistance
Act”. In effect this is a rewrite of The GI Bill and is being
accomplished with input and effort by The American Legion. Below is a
bit of history and a brief description about the GI Bill and need for
the rewrite:

THE GI BILL

On December 15, 1943, a committee of prominent Legionnaires convened a
meeting at the Mayflower Hotel in Washington, DC to develop a plan to
correct the problems facing recently discharged veterans. Thirty-four
Departments of The American Legion provided reports describing the poor
treatment being received by returning service members. This committee of
Legionnaires determined that a strong piece of legislation encompassing
all the needs of veterans should be introduced in Congress.

When the meeting ended, committee member and attorney Harry W. Colmery
of Kansas walked to Suite 570 of the Mayflower Hotel carrying notes from
the meeting and resolutions from The American Legion National Convention
and the Fall National Executive Committee meeting. Writing in longhand
on hotel stationary, he penned the first draft of the Servicemen’s
Readjustment Act of 1944 - The “GI Bill”.

Senator Bennett C. Clark, one of the founders of The American Legion,
introduced the bill in Congress on January 10, 1944 and President
Franklin Delano Roosevelt signed it into law on June 22, 1944.

Now, more than 60 years later, The American Legion continues to advocate
for an effective GI Bill for America’s veterans. Educational costs
continue to increase and the needs of America’s veterans continue to
change and more National Guard and Reserve troops are serving longer and
more frequently in support of the Global War on Terrorism (GWOT).

By working together, we as a nation can ensure that those brave men and
women who wear the uniform of this country in defense of our freedoms
receive an adequate GI Bill for the 21st Century. S.22 addresses
several of the inadequacies and areas of discrimination that currently
result in National Guard and Reservists being denied Educational
Benefits regardless of how many years of active duty they are called up
for or how many times they are called up. Under the current GI Bill,
these brave Veterans receive NOTHING, ZILTCH, NADA, ZIP, ZERO in the way
of Educational Benefits if their active duty occurred because of being
called up from the Guard and/or Reserves to fight in the Global War on
Terrorism (GWOT). This needs to be corrected.

The first attachment below contains a comprehensive overview of The
American Legion’s recommendations for strengthening the GI Bill, it was
put out by The American Legion National Commander 01Mar08. The second
attachment is a two page fact sheet prepared by National HQ of The
American Legion. The third attachment is a petition of support for
S.22.

Please take the time to read and understand this important piece of
Legislation, a rewrite of The GI Bill with the 40&8 lending a hand to
The American Legion as it once again takes a lead position. If you have
any questions just email me at: drreott@vnet.net and I will try to
answer your questions or refer you to someone who can.

For God and Country,

Michael A. Reott, SR, DDS, PA, LTC (ret)
NC PDC 2004-2005
40&8 Grande Publicist

Legion Style FactSheet on GI Bill in PDF format.

New S. 22 White Paper in PDF format.

Post 9-11 Veterans Educational Assistance Act Petition in PDF format.

Voiture Locale 1538 Proudly endorses for Grande Chef de Gar du North Carolina

David E Van Wormer

David’s bio in PDF format:

November 24, 2007

Fellow Voyageurs:

Well the Thanksgiving holiday is over and now for the rush of Christmas. I hope that your holiday was great and relaxing as we still have a lot of work to do to get our membership up to where it should be. This is the time of year where we have a lot of chances to bring in new members and get the former members back into the fold. If you are like me there are a lot of holiday parties and get together where we see and talk to former voyageurs and prospective new voyageurs.

Invite the veterans to the different gatherings and social events and then talk to them, explain to them what they are missing and how much fun we have while we do a lot to help our fellow veterans. If they are former members ask them to rejoin our great organization and tell them how much they are missed. If they haven’t been a member and you feel they would be a good member ask them to join. One way to invite them is by a personal letter. Make this a group effort so that one voyageur doesn’t have to do all the work. You can have a small gathering where all the voyageurs can get involved and no one has to feel like he is doing all the work.

Our locale has a small potluck dinner where the dames provide the great food each month before our promenade and this is when we have a chance to socialize and joke around before we get to the serious business. Send your former voyageurs an invitation to join in on the fun and show them that we miss them and care about them and want them to come back to our organization. They won’t know about the different activities unless they are invited and you have to do the inviting.

Also remember that some of our older former voyageurs don’t drive at night. See if a fellow voyageur will pick up these former voyageurs and bring them to the promenade and take them home each month. It may seem like an inconvenience but it is helping out a fellow voyageur and it is also showing support and compassion for a fellow voyageur and veteran.

Now for some good news and bad news. First the good news. As of the last reporting our area is still in first place and it would be great if we can pull together and stay that way. We have a lot of locales that have a hundred percent or better and that is great, but we have some locales that are still showing zero.

If you are holding all your membership to send it in all at one time please don’t as that hurts us and causes more work for Nationale. Some locales have fewer than twenty and they are still sitting on zero. Does this mean that the locale officers haven’t paid their dues for this year? I am sure that isn’t true but let’s please gets off the dime.

I know that it seems like I am asking a lot but I know that getting new members can be done. At the Veterans Day Memorial Service I lost a challenge from our Chef de Chemin de Fer and had to get a new member. Well within thirty minutes I had a new member and I did this on the church steps. I think I even surprised Bernie by getting one this fast. So if I can do it at church I know you can do it in all your different travels.

When I was in Indianapolis I heard that the different locales weren’t getting any information from me. The job of the Grand Chef, Grand Correspondant, and Grand Cheminot is to make sure the Locale Chefs, Locale Correspondants, and Locale Cheminots receive copies of my letters. I don’t have all the addresses and e-mails of the different locales so I need the help the help of the Grand Officers.

I am still trying to get the dates and information on the different functions I might attend so I can get to know you on a one on one basis instead of just knowing your name. I feel that it is better to talk in person instead of by the written word as then I can go into depth with some of your concerns and try to help you in resolving these problems. It’s like the chef says “GIT-R-DONE” and I will do anything in my power to do this.

I hope you have a safe and happy holiday and please don’t forget our troops as we have all been in there boots.

Yours in service to La Societe,

Rick Blish

On November 3-4^th a very important meeting was held in Indianapolis to determine the direction of La Societe in the years to come. I was pleased to see so many Grandes represented . Our efforts on that weekend may prove to be some of the most important decisions in La Societe’s history.

Every year our membership declines. We are losing over 100 members a month to death. Our current membership is at 38,000…..? Efforts to resolve our differences with the American Legion Organization have proved one sided, with La Societe making all the concessions. We have amended our constitution according to Legion demands and we even sent a formal apology for some offensive remarks allegedly made over 50 years ago. Past Chef de Chemin de Fer, Terry Sims, worked with the Legion National Commander last year to develop a resolution that would open dialog between the two organizations. At their National Convention, August 2007, the American Legion Organization “Rejected” the resolution from going to the floor for a vote by the body. In addition, a past National Vice Commander made it clear that our 38,000 40/8 members were of no benefit to the American Legion. Of NO BENEFIT!! All Voyageurs are members of the American Legion. Is the individual veteran that insignificant to the Legion?

So we were there that weekend to save ourselves from extinction. We were able to agree on a comprehensive resolution that recognizes our historical ties to the American Legion while opening eligibility to La Societe to all honorably discharged veterans; we hopefully not only saved La Societe, but will strengthen this great organization with the ability to invite any veteran that is deemed Voyageur material.

There were thirty eight Grands in attendance. The vote was 31 yea, 4 nay and two abstained with one Grande only having a past Chef de Chemin de Fer as a representative and not allowed to vote. The vote showed how the majority of the Grand’s feel on trying to save La Societe. The resoluation will be sent out to all locales and the Grand’s to be discussed and voted on at Promande Nationale 2008 in Orlando, FL…

It’s an exciting time for La Societe and I’m looking forward to watching the further growth of our great organization.

I want to take this opportunity to thank all who attended, most at their own expense. It was a task which regrettable had to be done. Thank you all for the effort and outcome.

Your’s for La Societe;

Bernie Sampson,

Chef de Chemin de Fer

As you may know, I emphasized during my term as Chef de Chemin de Fer 2007, the securing of relations between the 40/8 and the American Legion, so we can work together for “God and Country”. National American Legion Commander Morin agreed to meet with Correspondant National Rabius and myself in his office January 5, 2007. Correspondant Rabius and myself stated that the two organizations have their own charters and own monies and our 40/8 membership wishes it to continue in the same manner. We asked that a committee of three Legionnaires be appointed by the Commander to meet with a committee of three 40/8ers, appointed by me, to open a dialog. Commander Morin said that he would rather it go through the resolution process on the American Legion end before any decision would be made.

There seems to be some strained relations between some Departments and Grande Voitures. I’ve always heard it was a money issue years ago. Commander Morin pointed to a file on his desk and stated that the problem is in it. A statement was made in the 50’s by the 40/8 that was derogatory to the National American Legion Officers. My feeling is “why should the good 40/8ers today and the good Legionnaires today, suffer for some ones fist fight 55 years ago”. If all that is wanted to secure relations between two great organizations, is an apology, then I will ask the Executive Committee of LaSociete to guide me. A letter was sent to the 4 Sous Chefs de Chemin de Chemin de Fer, Commisaire Intendant, three members of the Executive Committee and myself. They came back with a unanimous response in the affirmative to send the apology to the Legion.

The American Legion has asked LaSociete to amend its Constitution over the years. The latter being, removing the word male. This was accomplished in Traverse City, also an apology has been made because of offensive remarks made over 50 years ago. These are two “Huge” steps that LaSociete has taken. I feel the 40/8 has accomplished all avenues that the American Legion has asked us to do.

Correspondant National Rabius, Chef de Chemin de Fer 1990 Burden and myself attended the Internal Affairs meeting at the National American Legion Convention in Reno, NV in August. We were not allowed to speak because we were not delegates to that particular meeting. A past National Legion Vice Commander stated that the 38,000 members of the 40/8 would not be of any benefit to the American Legion. Three other delegates agreed. Several other delegates stated they were in favor of the resolution because it is only for both organizations to “Meet” to start a dialog.

Fifteen departments sent resolutions in favor. This amounted to 42% of the delegation strength. The percent does not take into account the Departments that did not send a resolution, but supported it. After a ‘Voice” vote, the Chairman “Rejected” the resolution from going to the floor for a vote by the body. We put our hearts and souls into this resolution that was not to be.

Some documentaton that I have read says that in 1950 alone, the 40/8 was responsible for signing up 650,000 members for the American Legion. 40/8ers always participate in American Legion membership because we are Legionnaires and that is our only source to derive membership for the 40/8. Since 2002 LaSociete has lost 13,000 Voyageurs. We must stop this bleeding.

At Promenade Nationale in Overland Park, KS, many Voyageurs came to me and asked “what do we do”. I said “what do you want to do?” We must save our Great Organization.

I must pass on to you what one Voyageur said to me. “We’re very proud of our American Legion heritage and we should always keep that wording in our Constitution. Couldn’t it be stated that the 40/8 derives its membership from the American Legion and Veterans with an Honorable Discharge, and keeping our “Invitation Only” clause still intact”. I agreed with him because we can not afford to lose another 13,000 members in the coming 5 years. This is only one idea that may help solve our declining membership. You do the math, our present policy is not working.

A workshop has been called for November 3, 4, 2007 in Indianapolis to gather ideas from our membership. You will be the ones that tell us the direction you wish to go. A representative from each Grande Voiture has been asked by Correspondant National Rabius to attend.

Greetings to one and all who visit and utilize this forum for discussion. This particular Category, “Grassroots” has been established to review the documented history of the 40&8 here in North Carolina starting in 1920. Of particular interest, and the point of great discussion over the years, is the 1959/1960 split-up between The American Legion and The 40&8.

In regards to our start, we have gone back to the beginning and have reproduced five pages - Chapter XIII of the 1919-1929 History of The American Legion and Auxiliary, Department of North Carolina as recorded by co-historians A.L. Fletcher and his wife Mae P. Fletcher - entitled “The Grande Voiture, 40 and 8, of N.C.”. (see Local Pages at right, History 40&8 NC) Additional historical information would be appreciated and ,if possible, please scan and send as a pdf file to the webmaintainer. With a better understanding of how we started we, as a group, will be better able to figure where we want to go.

In so far as the 1959/1960 split written information has been minimal. We have copied the three paragraphs pertaining to this from the National 40&8 website and they are available on this website. What we are looking asking for here is any written correspondence or paper articles available. Again, the more documented information we can share on the reasons for the split the better our decisions can be on where to go in the future.

For most of us, the split occurred while we were either in grade school or not yet born. I was living in Bradenton Fla. at the time, in the first grade and would survive the Cuban Missile Crisis a couple of years later (something else that I did not understand until High School History class in 1969). I say this with no intention of insulting those over 65 years of age (they would have been 18 years old in 1960); I am just trying to put the 1959/1960 decision on a time line understood by all. At that time the last war was the Korean Conflict, the Cold War was on, Vietnam War was unofficial and no one knew of any of the other wars and conflicts that have occurred since 1960.

What I am trying to show here is that for the vast majority of today’s Veterans, Legionnaires and 40&8er’s who have earned the right to be called a Veteran have done so since 1959. But all we have are campfire and bar room war stories of what happened between The American Legion and the 40&8 some 4 to 5 decades ago. Why it happened and what has been done to address those areas over the past 45 to 50 years needs to be reviewed and discussed. Then a rational approach to our future can be developed.

In the early years, the two groups complimented each other and aided each other in programs and in RECRUITMENT of membership… the last being an area both organizations are loosing ground in. Our organizations are predicated upon the ideal of helping the Veteran, his family, the widows and their orphans. We may not be able to take the organizations back to the way it was, but surely there is room for improvement.

Let us use this forum to study and discuss how we started, what has happened, where we want to go in the future and then inform those in charge. We are repeatedly told that our organizations are “Grassroots” Organizations, that changes at the National Level come up from the Local Level. Looks like WE have to start working for change.

DocMike

From the Legion Point of View

An excerpt from:
The American Legion Story
by Raynond Moley, Jr.
With a Foreword by
J. Edgar Hoover
Printed by:
Duell, Sloan, and Pearce
New York

Any appraisal or understanding of The American Legion must consider its vitality and performance in this light. Obviously, the Legion has had to meet change and challenge from time to time within its organization. Most recently for Legionnaires there has been the painful controversy over the Forty and Eight Society.

Following World War II, serious concern over the eligibility clause of the Forty and Eight constitution arose. This subordinate organization of Legionnaires was long regarded as an honor society devoted to camaraderie, the more playful aspects of National Conventions and to a number of good works. Its constitution stipulated that members be “white Males.”

Since the Legion is a cross-section of our population drawing its membership from all nationalities and races, men and women who served honorably in our wars, it was inevitable that headted debate would center on the issue of exclusion for reasons of race. When the Forty and Eight leadership took no action over a period of years, the 1959 Convention unanimously adopted a report of tits Constitution and By-Laws Committee which declared the “white” restriction to be illegal. The convention called on the Legion’s executives to seek the “sympathetic support of the Forty an Eight” to remedy the situation. The Legion was condemned in some segments of the press for not having passed a stronger resolution.

Within weeks National Commander Martin B. McKneally named a special committee headed by James E. Powers to confer with a Forty and Eight committee. Representatives of the Forty and Eight adopted “a passive attitude.” McKneally asked the NEC to correct the situation. He directed National Judge Advocate Ralph Gregg to prepare a review of the legal aspects. Gregg reported that the Forty and Eight could not invoke membership restriction that went beyond the Constitution an Charter of the parent organization. He added that the restriction was in violation of the Fourteenth Amendment of the United States Consitution and warned that both Thae American Legion and the Forty and Eight were liable to legal actions by state attorneys general. Already such action threatened in California, where the national Forty and Eight had suspended a voiture’s charter. This Forty and Eight unit had taken in a Legionnaire of Chinese extraction.

The NEC debated went beyond the legal question to consider principle and adverse publicity. “How,” asked one NEC-man “can a subsidiary organization find members of this Executive Committee itself ineligible for membership?”

The NEC overwhelmingly passed a resolution giving Commander McKneally the power to use “any and all measures” to end the illegality. McKneally recognized his responsibility to see that action was taken and in stating his position said:
I believe that The American Legion, composed as it is of veterans of three wars which were fought for the preservation of freedom and human dignity, should be in the forefront in promoting brotherhood and should be the leader in allaying prejudice.

On the basis of leagl opinion, McKneally informed the Forty and Eight that its use of the name and emblem of the Legion was prohibited. This prohibition is still in effect. A year later, Commander William R. Burk resigned from the Forty and Eight and stated that it was each Legionnaire to decide whether his loyalties would remain with The American Legion or with the Forty an Eight Society. In certain areas the Forty and Eight operates as before, and nationally it still puts Legion service and membership as a prerequisite to membership. The 1960 Convention found it inappropriate to allow the Forty and Eight to participate in Legion programs. National Adjutant E. A. Blackmore observed:
This is a matter which has been painful for all of us. It is a matter which has caused us to disassociate ourselves from old friends and old comrades. It is a matter which is now a closed issue. In the future we in The American Legion must give our best efforts to he advancement of the fundamental programs of our organization.

Today, the Legion’s powerful organization stands on a foundation of many lasting truths. Its structure, its ideals, its activities, and its promise rest upon that firm base. In full vigor, it looks with confidence to the capabilities of its organization.

The 40&8 Point of View

Source:Grand du GA and second is from National 40&8 Website History
Page

1959 - 1960

An entry in the official history is intriguing. “The Soviet’s Big K beating his desk in the United Nations - Cuba’s Castro raving against the United States for four solid hours - The American Legion’s leadership denouncing the Forty and Eight as ‘offensive’. These are some of headline happenings of the year which are difficult for the historian of today to understand, but which perhaps will come clear to those of the future.” Although there had been some ripples of discontent in past years, 1960 cast a dark shadow on the future relationship of The American Legion and The Forty and Eight. Many issues brought the organizations to logger heads. First, the Forty and Eight had been refused authority to have a separate parade function at National Legion Conventions for the past few years. Secondly, the Forty and Eight felt the National Executive Committee of the Legion had been attempting to usurp the independence of the Forty and Eight. Thirdly, certain allegations had been made by the Forty and Eight regarding the power of seven individuals within the Legion, which was interpreted by the National Executive Committee of the Legion as demeaning to that organization. Fourth, The Forty and Eight was “Snubbed” by the American Legion after it had donated $50,000 to the Child Welfare Fund, and no mention of gratitude was made. Fifth, The American Legion had refused the Forty and Eight the opportunity to hold its Promenade Nationale in the same city with the National Convention of the American Legion. Lastly, The American Legion demanded changing of the Constitution of the Forty and Eight, an action which did not pass in two previous Promenades Nationale. The bickering, over years, had finally brought the organizations to sever their long term relationship as a parent and subsidiary organizations.

1959 (1960)

The Forty & Eight severed ties with the Legion and became an independent organization.

There had been ripples of discontent for several years. The organizations were fundamentally different. The Legion was large, easy to join and non-fraternal. The Forty & Eight was elite, by-invitation and racially restrictive. The Forty & Eight had monetary resources many in the Legion deemed theirs. Conversely, the Forty & Eight objected to funding Legion programs with large amounts of money, without adequate recognition in return. The Legion pressed the Forty & Eight to change its constitution to be racially inclusive. These differences brought the two organizations to logger heads. Eventually, the American Legion refused to allow the Forty and Eight to hold its Promenade Nationale in the same city with the Legion’s National Convention.

The Forty & Eight thus became independent, but with many vestiges of its parent organization remaining intact, including the Forty & Eight continuing to only accept Legion members.

Those of us new to the organizations (less than 20 year members) often wonder why the void that exists between the 40&8 and The American Legion. Those at National Levels are quick to point out differences that existed 30 to 50 years ago are what caused the split. As it stands now, both The American Legion and the 40&8 are open to all qualified (and invited) United State veterans regardless of state of origin, race, creed, religion or sex.

Both organizations profess to be governed by grass root movements within their respective organization. There are hundreds if not thousands of Legion Posts like here at Maiden Post 240 Catawba County and we are about as grass roots as you can get. Maybe it is time for those at the National levels to take the time to look at what the grass roots are doing.

Maiden Post 240 Membership kickoff with Grand Chef Chad Parsons in attendance. Back row, second from right.

Legion Posts and 40&8 Voitures can work together for common goals, is it not about time for the National Organizations to do the same?